Posted by mojo3 on Wed, Sep 12, 2012, at 11:08 AM:
OK, so we have the new helmet rule. I saw it called in two games over the weekend, once at the PHC vs Fredericktown game and twice during the Georgia vs Mizzou game. I was in a discussion this morning with a co-worker when this came up. His belief is that if a helmet comes off as a result of say a face-mask penalty, then the player with the missing melon cover doesn't have to come out. Is this true? What are the rules about hands to the helmet? I know the face-mask rules, those are pretty straight-forward, but what about grabbing the back of the helmet?
Reason I ask was the belief by my co-worker that during one of the Franklin helmet incidents Saturday, Franklin was down in the bottom of the pile when someone grabbed his helmet and pulled it off his head. I recalled the similar incident from the PHC-FHS game Saturday and had watched the Ch-18 video of the play. They had a real clear shot of the play, #72 for Central had his fingers caught under the back of Gremminger's helmet and pulled it off. That play in particular was clearly NOT intentional. However, shouldn't there be a penalty thrown when there are hands on the helmet, and be either intentional with the 15 yards personal like a flagrant face-mask take-down or a five like an accidental face-mask?
Grabbing or holding onto the helmet rim of a player could cause as much neck-injury as grabbing the face-mask could, yank hard enough and the helmet goes flying leaving the poor cover-less player exposed in a pile-up at the end of a play. Plus, as my co-worker pointed out, this could be used as a weapon against the other side. Yank Franklin's helmet off, he has to sit out and maybe we get a fumble or interception because the replacement player isn't warmed up. As long as you don't grab the face-mask, it's OK?
Opinions please.
Replies (10)
That's a tough one, for a more detailed and less biased opinion I would suggest you go to mosports.com and ask this question. There are alot of officials on that website.
I think it would have been smart if you would not have put the guys # on there especially if the play in question was clearly not intentional. If the referees saw it as unintentional then they probably just let it go or who knows they may have not even seen it.
-- Posted by wheresthebeef on Wed, Sep 12, 2012, at 12:13 PM
What is the new rule? I've seen plenty of helmets come off this season already due to hits and such but they are not told to come off.
You see running backs stiff arm defenders all the time to the helmet and many times grab the defenders mask to push him away, but this is very rarely called. Additionally you see the backs lead with helmet down into the defenders chest, ala Earl Campbell style (man I just dated myself) and never get called for spearing, even though by every definition it is.
-- Posted by Attaboy on Wed, Sep 12, 2012, at 2:49 PM
in the MU/georgia game they said "unless it's a penalty the player has to come off." but what good does that do if it's to "teach kids to strap their helmets on tighter."?
-- Posted by Perrywinkle on Wed, Sep 12, 2012, at 11:54 PM
I seen the other day at a game a kid get face masked on a punt return and it decleated him. The refs thru a flag and as the kid got to his knees he puled his helmet off to adjust it so that he was not looking out the ear hole and was flagged for unsportsmen and had to come out for one play.
-- Posted by mule1993 on Thu, Sep 13, 2012, at 3:57 AM
And Daddy being the engineer I am, there a principle called Conservation of Energy. If you strap the helmet on tighter, the extra "pull" needed to get it off your melon has to go somewhere. Guess where, right into your neck. More pull on the neck more likely for an injury. Honestly I'd rather see the helmet come off in some situations, but being out there un-protected is dangerous too.
-- Posted by mojo3 on Thu, Sep 13, 2012, at 8:14 AM
A player whose helmet comes completely off during the down without being attributable to a foul will be treated as an official's timeout and handled the same as an injured or bleeding player. The player must sit out one down unless the halftime or an overtime intermission occurs.
However, a foul directly leads to the helmet coming off, the fouled player may remain in the game. Now, on penalties that are direct to the helmet. That penalty would have to be the reason the helmet came off. One way would be a facemask but not the only penalty. A facemask is a penalty when the opponent grabs any opening on the helmet. It can be the back of the helmet, the earhole, the mask, or the mouth protector when it is attached to the mask.
Note that if the player whose helemt comes completely off is in possession of the ball, the ball becomes dead immediately. But if it is another player, the ball remains live. The rules are different for High School (NFHS) and College (NCAA) on helmets coming off of a player that isn't a ball carrier. NFHS if a player that isn't the ball carrier and his helmet comes off he can continue to partcipate. In the NCAA if any player loses his helmet during a play he must stop partcipating in the play. I believe that you will see a rule change next year at the High School level to match the College rule.
-- Posted by White Hat on Thu, Sep 13, 2012, at 12:50 PM
White hat, thanks! I suppose too any hand-to-helmet penalty called could be an incidental five yarder or a personal foul 15 yarder where in the judgement of the official it was intentional?
-- Posted by mojo3 on Thu, Sep 13, 2012, at 1:49 PM
That will be a judgement call on the part of the official. Either one would allow the player to remain in the game if he was to lose his helmet because of the hand-to-helmet contact.
-- Posted by White Hat on Thu, Sep 13, 2012, at 2:17 PM
what if there is a helmet to helmet infraction, to say, the quarterback? that does coincide with the facemask part of the rule, correct?
-- Posted by Perrywinkle on Thu, Sep 13, 2012, at 4:36 PM
As long as there is a flag on the helmet to helmet penalty then the player would be able to remain in the game. The rule is for any penalty that is in direct contact of the helmet and that contact was the reason for the helmet coming off. Now, officials are instructed to error on the side of safety. So if they are in doubt as to how the helmet came off, then the player is to leave the game.
-- Posted by White Hat on Fri, Sep 14, 2012, at 5:51 AM
OK, so we have the new helmet rule. I saw it called in two games over the weekend, once at the PHC vs Fredericktown game and twice during the Georgia vs Mizzou game. I was in a discussion this morning with a co-worker when this came up. His belief is that if a helmet comes off as a result of say a face-mask penalty, then the player with the missing melon cover doesn't have to come out. Is this true? What are the rules about hands to the helmet? I know the face-mask rules, those are pretty straight-forward, but what about grabbing the back of the helmet?
Reason I ask was the belief by my co-worker that during one of the Franklin helmet incidents Saturday, Franklin was down in the bottom of the pile when someone grabbed his helmet and pulled it off his head. I recalled the similar incident from the PHC-FHS game Saturday and had watched the Ch-18 video of the play. They had a real clear shot of the play, #72 for Central had his fingers caught under the back of Gremminger's helmet and pulled it off. That play in particular was clearly NOT intentional. However, shouldn't there be a penalty thrown when there are hands on the helmet, and be either intentional with the 15 yards personal like a flagrant face-mask take-down or a five like an accidental face-mask?
Grabbing or holding onto the helmet rim of a player could cause as much neck-injury as grabbing the face-mask could, yank hard enough and the helmet goes flying leaving the poor cover-less player exposed in a pile-up at the end of a play. Plus, as my co-worker pointed out, this could be used as a weapon against the other side. Yank Franklin's helmet off, he has to sit out and maybe we get a fumble or interception because the replacement player isn't warmed up. As long as you don't grab the face-mask, it's OK?
Opinions please.
Replies (10)